How to Keep Your Employees EngagedIn this episode.

Barbara and David discuss:
-How the pandemic changed people’s perspective about working
-Tips to improve employees
-The short-term outlook for employee retention?

Key Takeaways:

“I think at the end of the day, people want to work for good people” – David Blake.

Connect with David Blake:


Connect with Barbara Hales:



Content Copy Made Easy
14 Tactics to Triple Sales
Power to the Patient: The Medical Strategist


Dr. Barbara Hales: Hello, welcome to another episode of marketing tips for doctors.

I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales.  Today we have with us a very interesting guy by the name of David Blake. David has over 40 years of experience in the human resources and administrative fields, including positions in the private, public, and government sectors. Additionally, he has served as an adjunct faculty member for several universities where he teaches advanced-level courses related to human capital management, as well as leadership.

He has spoken and published a wide variety of articles about workforce engagement, benefits, learning, and development. He is a nationally certified executive coach through the Institute for life coach training. David has been married to his wife, Terry, for 41 years and has four awesome kids, two boys, two girls, and five beautiful grandchildren. They live in San Diego with their three dogs. David Blake is a proud retired member of the United States Air Force.

Welcome to the show, David.

David Blake: Thank you. I’m pleased to be here. It’s a great way to start the day. Thank you.

Dr. Barbara Hales: So, how did you get into the field that you’re in now?

David Blake: That’s a great question. I think initially. It’s just a real desire to understand how people work and function. I think it’s a fascinating field. We study a lot of different things in the world. But very seldom do we study that very thing that we spend most of our time doing working. So I’m intrigued at the behaviors people bring to work and how best to bring them. I would always say the passions and motivations of people to help organizations be more effective. So it’s really around a desire to work and help people. It’s been sort of an internal passion of mine for many years as what’s really driven my research and my teaching as well.

Work From Home

Dr. Barbara Hales: As the pandemic changed how we look at work, go back to the way it was before.

David Blake: Yeah, you know, people always say, you know, it’s a new normal, and it’s a new normal on many fronts, I think the pandemic if there was any good, it changed the way I think, think about work in the way we lead people at work. And ultimately, what are people expecting out of work? So if you look at the pre-pandemic time, workers, they were driven by, you know, the usual things that people are driven by, I need a job, I need to pay my bills, I go to work, I fulfill my obligations, I go home, repeat the cycle day after day after day, the pandemic, a lot of people felt and experienced a lot of loss on many fronts, financial loss, business loss, human loss of relatives that might have been loved ones that departed prematurely because of the virus. They lost jobs.

Gallup created a survey a few years ago and was comparing engagement between post-pandemic or pre-pandemic a post-pandemic. And what they noticed was that during the pandemic or after the pandemic, rates of engagement of employees decreased by up to 15%. So it posed a question, well, what is different? What do people want today? So what we’re finding is, either through some observation, I have people that work for me, or through what the research is telling us is, about half the people today prefer to work virtually or in a hybrid manner, which means I go in sometimes, and I’m home sometimes. And so traditionally, supervisors really did resist having people work in a remote fashion. It was an old argument. If I can’t see you, I must not know what you’re doing. And I like to think I was at the forefront of that. Because previously, I was always arguing, it doesn’t matter where they sit. It’s what they do.

We went through a two-and-a-half-year social experiment where people worked, lived, and interacted. Just like what you and I are doing today, on a screen on a video call. They didn’t. They didn’t interact in a social way. Oddly enough, the very thing that humans crave the most was the thing that we were denied, which was social interaction. What we’re finding today is people are still leery about being in that public space. They’re still scared about the contagious nature of the virus. By wearing a mask. Why not wear a mask? So what we found is after that, people said, hey, you know what, I like working remotely. It gives me the flexibility I never had before. And study after study shows that people who work in some form remotely tend to be far more productive than those in the office. So it’s a challenge, especially for jobs that require people to be in a seat, right? You can’t be a manufacturing worker and work from home. You can’t necessarily be a nurse and work from home, even though telemedicine is right. So look at telemedicine today. All my appointments in the last two and a half years have been through the telephone or direct video and really changed the way we look at work and the way we deliver work. And what’s important to people I don’t think work is important to people as we once thought it was. I think balance is what people are craving today.

Dr. Barbara Hales: Absolutely. Well, one thing that we could see right off the bat, in terms of an advantage to working from home, is shaving off an hour and a half or an hour commute each way to the office, whereas you could then take that time and put it to more positive effects in working right away. The only thing that you need to do is, you know, get ready and move from one room to the next in your house, and you’re at work.

David Blake: Correct. And I think that’s a major benefit to people I hear a lot of people say I use it, instead of spending an hour in traffic, which is not unusual here in California, where do I spend my hour in the morning, exercising, meditation, yoga, something that prepares you for the day. So it’s really kind of a nice way to ease into your day without being kind of thrown into the hustle and bustle of getting to work.

Dr. Barbara Hales: Absolutely. And the activities that you just mentioned are just so important for us to, you know, calm down and be able to think better.

David Blake: Yeah, I do think people today look for ways to sort of de-stress and the fact that we can’t get rid of all stress. But there are techniques that people are learning to manage it better, you know, so for example, you know, we have the school I work at, we have a lot of folks that are in very pressure-packed programs to graduate. And so we offer mindfulness programs, and we even bring dogs to work now as a way of helping calm our students during finals time, which we find an interesting thing. So, you know, who would have thought of these things? Probably a couple of years ago, I’m sure they are out there. But I think during those times, a lot of people thought, well, those are silly things to do. People want that stuff that people want and are striving for balance.

Dr. Barbara Hales: However, I think people cross the line when they bring in their pet ostrich.

David Blake: Yes, yes, we’re limited to registered compassion dogs.  The Society for Humane Society has animals they bring in, and they’re just wonderful for people.

Dr. Barbara Hales: You know, it’s therapy.

David Blake: Correct.

5 Tips  For Employees

Dr. Barbara Hales: What would you say are five things that someone could do right now to make a difference for their employees outside of you know, like giving raises the problem that most businesses have, and doctors are not immune to this is that, you know, you spend time training your employees. And, you know, you don’t want to see them go on a few months and have to start the process over.

And it’s not that easy to find employees these days. And you know, it’s competitive. your competition is vying for the same employees that you are. So, you know, how do I make a difference outside of being like a Google where I have a basketball court and Hot Wheels and vending machines?

David Blake: Well, you’re absolutely right, I think, let’s face it, we need money to function daily, right? It’s not that we don’t need a paycheck and we need a paycheck that is going to do the best it can to meet the needs that we have. Because we know inflation right now is somewhere around eight or 9% average increases this year, estimated the between everywhere between 2.5 and 3%. You kept that with the constant need to be able to provide benefits that you can afford. That becomes a little problematic, right? So you almost end up in a sort of negative situation.

So what are employers looking for today? We know number one that people do not leave organizations necessarily for pay People say, Well, you know, I do an exit survey, and my employee said, The reason they’re leaving is the pay. Well, that’s a safe answer, right? Nobody’s gonna get upset with you for that. But deep down, peeling the onion back, what we find is, and there’s a lot of again, research out there. What we find back in the deepest, darkest parts of the peel back onion is it people, we bosses, people, we’ve cultures, people leave organizations that don’t fit their values.

So what can you do? I think, first of all, sincerely understanding and appreciating your employees is number one. Nobody wants to work for a jerk. Sometimes, make it so simple as that, right? We want to work for somebody that cares about us and understands us to want to start today by saying how was your weekend as opposed to what are you going to be doing for me today. So it’s, again, it’s that creating that personal connection? I think number two it’s communication. Tell me what’s going on. You know, I think some companies are very transparent. Some organizations are very transparent. They tell you everything.

And some organizations are not transparent. And I think every organization’s culture has to determine the degree to which they want to be transparent. I think the other thing, that’s the other thing that’s important, is they want somebody who is passionate about what they do, that they truly believe in the mission of what they’re called to do. So if they’re physicians, for example, they want to work for physicians who truly want to heal. If they work for lawyers, they want to work for lawyers who want to do good in the world. If they work for a biotech startup, they want to be doing work that’s cutting edge, it’s going to improve mankind in general. And for good, please.

Liaison Between Doctors and Employees

Dr. Barbara Hales: What happens when a doctor is so burned out? There is a depressive environment going on. For everybody, do you recommend a liaison between the doctor and the rest of the employees?

David Blake: I do, I think sometimes interventions are healthy to try to sort of understand where the break is, a lot of times the doctor and their employees, I mean, you know, it’s an I don’t wanna say an adversarial relationship, but it’s a power relationship. So a lot of times, the employees do not necessarily want to go and talk. And so what I find sometimes is, organizations reach out to people like me, to try to mediate sort of the culture and the climate to get the conversation to be moving forward. I always say coaches are not therapists. They look at the past, I look at the future, right? So I’m trying to say what is it we can do collectively to move past what is sticking us and getting us forward. I think supervisors, or excuse me, employees, really want a leader who is going to develop them and take the time to have them to encourage them to develop. And sometimes that development, this is what’s interesting. I think sometimes you develop people right out of a job, right? They get so good that they move on.

It’s the ultimate compliment to you that your employees have succeeded. It’s natural to grow employees to stay about an average of five to six years on a job now, less movement right now because I think people are scared to move necessarily on a job. And finally, they too want to do something that is worthwhile. They want to be involved in work that’s doing something good. And they have to see the connection between what I’m doing and what the output is. What is it doing to help make something better?

You know, I think I always use the example of every organization having custodial crews that go around and clean the organization. And I always say, just imagine that for a moment. Those people didn’t do their job. What would your day be like? And so, sometimes, being able to equate the value of a person’s job to the organization’s mission is important. And the leader has to make that connection, right? People sometimes don’t get it. It’s like, Well, I’m just the custodian. I’m just a cafeteria worker. I’m just the fill-in-the-blank. All people have to work simultaneously together the composite that organization or that doctor’s office’s mission.

Dr. Barbara Hales: Yeah, we’re all on the same team. Agree. Now, you mentioned that nobody wants to work for a jerk. So can you take that jerk and make them a better person?

David Blake: Yeah, that’s great. Well, that would be great if I could just wave that one. People who have problems in terms of their interactions with people, I think,  intuitively know it. I think most people are socially aware enough to know that, and I’ve heard people say, I know I rubbed people the wrong way. And I always think, well, okay, that’s the first step, the realization we need change. I think if the individual is I’ve worked with individuals like this that said, Look, I know I can be abrasive, and sometimes they get I was really say sent to me as opposed to voluntarily coming to me. And so sometimes, regardless of the case, I said, Well, are you interested in changing because if you’re not, then there’s nothing I can do. And as a result of that, there’s going to be consequences in your office.

You will lose people. It’s a fact of life. People don’t stay with people that you don’t respect or admire. And so when it’s obviously easier when someone says, Look, helped me brush off, I’m just, I’m terrible at communicating. I’m terrible at the warm, fuzzy stuff. I know I can be impatient. Can you help me with that? And I always say, if you want to change it, we could talk about how but you have to be telling me that this is something I recognize, you know, I have the emotional intelligence. If I want to do something about it, if the answer is yeah, sure, we can begin that process to work through it.

Thank You Card

Dr. Barbara Hales: So, do you give them exercises when they are not a warm and fuzzy person? Do you feel like, well, I think that you need to give out three compliments a day that you need to stroke somebody’s ego? I mean, like, do you have like an exercise program? Or tips that you tell these people who need to improve?

David Blake: Yeah, I think we’ll have falsities in dealing with people and trying to adjust behavior.   I had a boss one time tell me, Well, I’m just not warm and fuzzy. It’s just I don’t feel comfortable doing that. I said, Okay, but what do you think you’re good at? This is why I love to write. Okay. Have you ever thought about writing thank you cards to people? Yeah, just an old-fashioned thank you card. I mean, it’s the most intimate way to say thank you to somebody. And so she started doing that she would go around early in the morning before work started. And she put a card on people’s desks who had done something that was wonderful.

So instead of focusing on what she’s not good at, we say, well, let’s focus on what you aren’t good at. So if there’s an element, so part of the reason a coach works with people to say, Well, what camp was minimized what you’re not good at? Right? Let’s not try to make you somebody you’re not. But there are elements about you that are very powerful. So let’s try to understand those, and then use those as a way of enhancing where there might be a downside.

Dr. Barbara Hales: That was such a great idea.

David Blake: Yeah, I learned that from an old supervisor about 40 years ago, and I still do it to this day. Most people remember me as the guy that gave the Thank You card.

Dr. Barbara Hales: A nice thing about thank you cards is they can then show it around.

David Blake: Absolutely. I know people that will pick them up. That’s just a way of saying, Look, my boss said thank you. I can tell you. I have a file in my office of every thank  I’ve ever received. And trust me, if you’re having a rough day, pick up that box of thank you cards and go back and realize you’ve done a lot of good along the way too.

Dr. Barbara Hales: And there are people that will actually carry it in their wallet too. Take a look at it from time to time.

David Blake: Yep, my wife had a number of years ago, put a little sticker on my walls is remember. You got this. And so I opened up my wallet, and you know, it’d be sitting there kind of worn out after time and just used of my wallet. But, you know, it’s just kind of reminded me that, you know, at the end of the day, I think we all come to work wanting to do our best.

Dr. Barbara Hales: You can pass  that on to your children.

David Blake: Yeah, I do. I love communicating with my children. What I love about  tech sometimes is you can make a short message as I love you, have a great day. And so my granddaughter’s birthday is tomorrow, we’re going to see her, you know, I mean, obviously, it’s going to be fun for us. But yeah, I’ll drop her texts in the morning and just say, Hey, this is a great day. We’re going to celebrate with you. And I think those little messages are far more impactful than big events, right? Because you took the time to reach out to the person and just tap on the shoulder and tell them you’re thinking about them. So yes, I have to admit, I do practice what I preach with my kids. And I’ve noticed that rubs off, you know, I’ve noticed how they deal with their children, and I know how they tend to deal with their spouses. So hopefully, I’ve done a little good in that world as well.

Dr. Barbara Hales: Well, you know, it’s like paying it forward. When you make somebody feel good. They then make other people around them feel good,

David Blake: Right? And I think a lot of times too, we don’t know what the true things that people are going through every day. So before we always tell supervisors before you unload on somebody, think for a moment, could that person have something going on in their life that maybe caused them to have a bad day?

Have you ever asked Hey, is there something going on because you don’t seem to yourself? So before we attempt to criticize and, in essence, sort of kick them when they’re down? Let’s have a better understanding of where they sit today and The world. And that can be simple as a question is, you know, look looks like something’s not firing on all cylinders you’re doing okay?

So I found that to be a better approach and just, you know, some supervisors right away want to say, let me tell you all things that are going wrong, instead of saying, hey, is there something that might be happening to you that you’re experiencing? Because remember, again, coming out of COVID, people suffered a lot of loss, and the loss, they couldn’t grieve that loss normally, because we were separated. And I spoke to a lot of people who lost people during the pandemic, who told me they still carry that grief and are still processing it.

Employee Retention

Dr. Barbara Hales: Absolutely. What does the short-term future look like in terms of employee retention?

David Blake: I think right now, employees, this is what’s interesting. I think, you know, unemployment is two and a half 3%. I always say when you get to those numbers. You’re really at zero unemployment. And what I mean by that is that everybody who really wants to work is going to work. And so what happens is, is that that small portion of people that aren’t working are sort of what I call the chronically unemployed. And there are all sorts of reasons for those things, which makes it very difficult to post the job and find people. Because right now, I think in the short term, people are scared to move, they want to see what’s going to happen, they don’t want they’ve gone through two and a half years of uncertainty, why would I want more of this, and changing a job is uncertain. You know, there’s an element of risk associated.

Now, on the downside of the app, some employees who need to move on aren’t because they’re comfortable. And I think, especially when you work in a small setting, like a doctor’s office, having employees who should go but don’t make it very difficult. And sometimes the other employees end up carrying the work. But I had a supervisor time one time, well, I have five employees, and I have this one that’s not very productive. And if I let that employee go, I only have four, and they’ll have to do the work. I said, Well, realistically, they’re probably already doing it. Right? So you can save the money that you’re paying that fifth person and divvy it up to the four that are. And so I think the future of work looks a little different. It’s going to be a hybrid world. We know that about 50% of the work arrangements currently today are hybrid. People are at home, people are at work, and there’s flexibility. People want increased flexibility. The days of nine to five, I think, are pretty well gone. We live in a global economy. We have people that can access information any time of day or night.

I noticed the other day I was visiting my doctor, and the urgent care now even takes appointments. I’ve never seen urgent care that you can actually call in and make an appointment for urgent care, instead of having to go in there and set a time is important to people nowadays. They don’t want to be caught up in things. But I think at the end of the day, employees are going to continue to really strive to want work that they can create value in personally, but where they can bring their passions and motivations to the job, they don’t want to go through the motions.

And we see this heavily in the younger generation. I have found more people in their 50s today that I talked to that want to change careers than ever before. And I asked them why why why would you do that. You’ve been doing this for so many years. And they say the same thing. I’m not getting the level of satisfaction from this job that I once did. It’s burned me out. I can’t do it anymore. And I hear that from a lot of people, especially in the professional fields where there is a lot of demand and demand to be successful demand on your time demand on your resources. So yeah, I do think going forward, people are looking to find work where they can sort of connect their passion to their work and have opportunities to sort of create the best work arrangement for them that is supported by that job.
Letting Someone Go

Dr. Barbara Hales: How do you let someone go who is not being productive and is bringing is tainting the rest of the environment? Rather than just saying like, like, pack your bags? I mean, is there a way to do it?

David Blake: Yeah, there is. I mean, I think what I think is always important is if somebody is beginning to sort of have performance problems, it’s critical that you tell them about it, right? Give them a chance to fix it, say, Look, this currently isn’t working out, and we’re going to need to take some steps, and here’s what we’re going to do to change that performance because I need you at this level. But you’re at that level, right? You need to be able to step up to that we’re a small group, and everybody’s got to pull their full share of the word. Obviously, that puts the ball in the employee’s court, they can either rise to the occasion or sink to the moment, but I think the tough question is, at what point do you finally say enough is enough, right? And I think in every job a job is, you know, we’re not we say to business owners. You’re not running a charity here unless you are running a charity. But you still have to be able to be mindful of the bottom line.

And I think after a period of time, and there’s no set number, it’s, you know if you feel you’ve done everything, as a leader, to work with that individual to change their behavior, and they are not responding, then your only option is to sit down with them. And you know, I never use the words you’re fired, you’re terminated. Yes, that’s great for television shows. But I basically say, I don’t think this is working out anymore. I think we need to plan what your strategy looks like to exit the organization. Sometimes I’ve actually had people say to me. I’m glad you finally brought this up. They need to be nudged sometimes in that direction.

Dr. Barbara Hales: That’s great advice, and great words to, you know, carry forward, you know, especially doctors, you know, are reticent for change, you know, as long as things are not too painful, especially since they’re, you know, maybe out of the office a lot, going to the hospital making rounds. As long as things aren’t too bad. I think that they tend to let things slide because the idea of bringing in new people and having to train people all over again is painful.

David Blake: It is it’s painful, it’s costly. I would argue on the other side, though. It’s painful and costly. When you don’t have people performing at their highest level. I mean, think about this for a moment. We value a job at 100%. If you do 100% of the job, that compensation equals x. If you’re only doing 70% essence, you know, I always say you’re stealing from your employer, right? We enter into a contractual relationship with our employees. I agree to pay you if you agree to do the job. So yes, I think change is painful, especially in the short term.

And I don’t disagree with that. But in the long term, keeping employees who don’t function properly, especially in a job that’s so critical in terms of patient care, in terms of documentation, things that are required of a physician on a daily basis, you don’t want people doing 70% of your job, I always say imagine somebody who is going to be a brain surgeon. And they’re only 70% qualified, right? I don’t think I would pick that brain surgeon, right? I’d probably find the guy that’s a little more prepared to do it. So we want people to be at 100%. Because we agree, that’s what we’re going to pay you, right? We’re not gonna say, Well, I’m today only to 70%. So I’m going to dock your pay. So yes, I think it can be tough in the short term. But in the long term, I think you’re in a better place.

David’s Way of Counselling

Dr. Barbara Hales: If a company or a business feels that they need you to step in and counsel or coach everybody to pinpoint what is wrong and how they could improve things moving forward, do you then say, well, I’ve discovered the issue, let’s all sit down and change things?

David Blake: Yeah, I think the only way you really understand the culture has to go experience, right? You know, people. So here’s what my culture is like. You’ll get ten different answers. And they all work in the same office. I think one of the things I tried to do versus is interview people just talk to me, tell me about, tell me about what’s your workday like, you know, because believe me, they’ll begin to share with you, they’re comfortable with you exactly what it is they feel frustrated with. I think, too, they have to understand to the people in the interview that this is confidential. I’m not going to share names with people. But I am going to share a report.

The leader says this is a general sense I get based on my experience. And I always say, here’s a series of things, I would suggest you might want to try it. I never tell people you need to do this. You need to do that. So my business, but on the same token, you know, if you brought me in, you want that help, right? And so part of my work is to, and I’ve used assessments to culture assessments. I’ve used motivation and passion assessments, different types of assessments. But I think the most effective way to do it, it’s just the people.

Dr. Barbara Hales: So you never go back to the employer and say, Listen, the consensus is everybody just thinks you’re a schmuck.

David Blake: Well, you know, sometimes that is the message. Right? And so look, you hired me to tell you what I think, and what I think, and I probably do you know, as both of us, that we’d be a little better than that, right? But I would say, look, you’re challenged by your leadership right now. And unless you’re some suggestions, I will give them to you, and I’m happy to help you with them. But at the end of the day, if you want something different because that’s what you asked me to tell you about, and you don’t do those things, then the result will be the same.

It’s like if you go to a doctor’s doc says to get rid of a headache, you take the aspirin, but if you don’t take the aspirin, you will still have a headache. So I really work with people say at work. Here’s my best advice for over 40 years of what I’ve been doing to say. This is what I suggest you might do. And I can help you with that. But at the end of the day, the leader has to say. I want to do that. That’s what I want to do.

Dr. Barbara Hales: How long does it take you when you go into, you know, premises to get a good evaluation of what’s going on?

David Blake: Yeah, it depends on the size of the organization, you know, smaller offices, you can do them in a day or two, you go in and sit down, observe, listen, ask people how they do work, I think it’s always critical to understand how work moves in the office. Sometimes those create bottlenecks, frustrations, and so forth. My background, my Ph.D. is in organizational design. So I look at the organization and say, is it structured properly so that people feel they can interact properly, that information flows properly, and that concerns go up and down in a way that’s appropriate? Take a look at their silos. It’s sort of separate people from one office to the other. It depends on the size of the organization. But you know, in your average small-sized doctor’s office, a day or two to be able to go in there, conduct the interviews, to get a sense of how things operate, is usually sufficient.

Dr. Barbara Hales: I’m afraid that I may have sidetracked you when you were telling me about the five things that people could do right now. Yeah. Was there anything else that you wanted to add to that?

Work For Good People

David Blake: No, I think we hit them on a kind of one way or another. I do have a pamphlet on my website that will give you kind of a more an overview of that as well. But I think it’s the end of the day, people want to work for good people. You know, I think you know, people are, you know, what’s the magic wand. And you could do all sorts of things. But if you’re not the person people want to work for, they’ll be they’ll see right through any fake attempt. So take care of your people, invest in your people, invest in yourself. If you’re killing yourself, you can’t be the best for your people. And I know doctors are going to be torturous for this right there.

They work hard. But if you don’t take time to take care of yourself, tell leaders this all the time. You’re telling people to take a vacation, but you never take it. Or you tell people not to answer emails at night and to go home and enjoy their family. But you send them six emails at nine o’clock at night. What do you think the message is? My bosses were working. I need to work too. So embrace the new change. I think there are some great things about the way the workforce is moving. I don’t think it’s a negative thing at all. But it’s hard for people to get around the old way of nine to five, Monday through Friday.
David’s Brochure “Five Steps To Creating Engaged Teams”

Dr. Barbara Hales: One thing that you just briefly mentioned a moment ago, which is so important, is that you have a brochure on your website. What is that brochure titled? Or what is that about? And where is the website that people could find it?

David Blake: Yes, it’s five steps to creating engaged teams, not just creating teams, but we want the teams to be fully engaged, right? They bring their full self to the, to the, to work, and my website is building the forward

Dr. Barbara Hales: That’s an interesting title. How did you come to find that name?

David Blake: Yeah, because I think everybody is looking to the future, right? My work is always about the future and building on where you’re at and where you want to go. But I think when we move forward, regardless of our age, and I think sometimes people I’ve had people say to me, am I too old to do this, right? And I have a new career change and am 5560 years old. I’m saying, Well, you might not necessarily dump your Jate day job. But you want to build on something that’s going to set you up in your passions. Do you have a hobby? Do you do something true? Do you volunteer? So it’s about looking at the future. It’s about building the foundations and things that are based on your passions and motivation. And I tell people, the best time to do it is now. I think a lot of times people get stuck. I’ll do it next year. I’m kind of busy right now. And guess what

Dr. Barbara Hales: What and to constantly evolve. If you don’t evolve, you die.

David Blake: Yeah. I mean, how many? How many things do you look at and say, I’ll do that next year? And you remember, Oh, two years ahead of that now. So I guess I’ll do it next year. Right. So yes, I think you have. I think all humans, and we know it’s healthy for people to tell people when you’re engaged in constant improvement and learning and change. It’s good for your head, right?

We don’t want to. I would say, like, I don’t want to be one of those who are scared of technology when I’m 80. I want to be still, you know, tell me how to use this. I want to learn it something new and different. And I think I think learning is good, obviously mentally, but I think physically as well.

Dr. Barbara Hales: Dave, it’s been a real delight speaking with you today. You’ve been listening to David Blake. This has been another episode of marketing tips for doctors till next time