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In this episode, Barbara and David discussesdiscuss: 

 

  • Six right-fit target markets for physician practices 
  • David outlined six crucial audiences: current patients, new patients, current employees, potential employees, current referral sources, and potential referral sources. He stressed that practices often neglect one or more of these or blend them together instead of treating each as a distinct target. 

 

  • Culture as the foundation of retention and marketing 
  • He emphasized that employee retention and effective marketing both start with culture—clearly defined core values, core behaviors, and a “cultural handbook” that goes beyond legal HR documents and is built with and for employees. 

 

  • Systematic feedback from employees, patients, and referral sources 
  • David recommended annual “snapshot” surveys using an outside party to gather more candid feedback from employees, patients, and referral sources. This yields insights to improve operations, strengthen culture, and collect testimonials. 

 

  • Employees and patients as powerful referral engines and storytellers 
  • He explained how employees can be coached to talk about the practice’s culture in everyday conversations, and how practices should proactively gather and use patient testimonials (written and video) on websites, in waiting rooms, and in email newsletters. 
  •  

Key Takeaways: 

“Culture is everything, and communicating that culture and building it with and for your employees is really critical.” 

 

Connect with David Mastovich: 

 

  • Book:  

 

Connect with Barbara Hales:  

 

TRANSCRIPTION 

 

Chapter 1: Introduction & Guest Overview 

 

Narrator [0:00:02]: Paul, welcome to the Marketing Tips for Doctors podcast, where you’ll discover the secrets to attracting more patients ready to schedule their first appointments to grow your practice without spending hours and hours away from your practice or home. Hear how to boost your online presence, develop a strong rapport with each patient to increase patient compliance, and add value while growing revenue. Now, here’s your host, Dr. Barbara Hales, America’s leading medical strategist. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:00:32]: Welcome to another episode of Marketing Tips for Doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales, and today we have a really special guest with us, by the name of David Mastovich. Dave is the CEO and founder of Mass Solutions, and you will find the contact information and more about the company in the show notes. He is a consultant who drives growth in revenue, recruiting, retention, and results. He is the author of No Bullshit Marketing, a number one bestseller, and host of the long-running No Bullshit Marketing show, Easy to Remember. He turns data, behavior, and patterns into practical actions and stories leaders can use to transform their organizations. Earlier in his career at UPMC, Dave’s marketing leadership helped grow the system’s revenue from under 1 billion to 10 billion. Today, he brings that same mix of cognitive science and real-world execution to help organizations strengthen culture, increase enterprise value, and accelerate performance. Welcome to the show, Dave. 

 

David Mastovich [0:01:57]: Thanks for having me, Barbara. I’m really excited to be here. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:01:59]: Tell us about the six target markets that matter to physician practices. 

 

Chapter 2: Six Target Markets & Culture / Retention 

 

David Mastovich [0:02:05]: Thanks. Great question. It comes down to the fact that we often don’t realize the various target markets out there, so some of the ones I tell you about will be neglected. They’re neglected right now, and they’ll become obvious and say, “Whoa, I have been neglecting them. But first and foremost, it’s actually current patients, and I think that’s sometimes neglected a little bit, because you have an opportunity to talk to them more than you currently do, and then they become marketers for you. So, I think the first audience is tied to your current patients, the second is the one that everybody knows and targets the most, and that is trying to find new patients, and so that’s the one that everyone will relate to. But then there’s a group called Your Current Employees, and I think we don’t talk to them enough about how they can become a part of the marketing team, and how the culture that kept them is something they should talk about. And then potential employees, because we’re in a field with a lot of turnover and retention issues, and we’re also going through a lot of growth. So, the third and fourth are current and prospective employees, and there needs to be the same rigor in marketing and communication to current and prospective employees as there is for new patients. And then the fifth and sixth are referral sources, so current referral sources and potential referral sources, so all six of those are intertwined, and they make sense, but what ends up happening is we neglect one or two, or we blend them into one, and we just say we’re trying to talk to referral sources, and we don’t break down the art and science of it, and say, okay, here’s our current referral sources, and here’s what they look like, and here’s how many referrals they give, here’s how many they could give. So we try to get them to give more, but then who are the look-alikes that are similar to them that we’re not getting anything from? So that’s how the fifth and sixth ones come into play. So those are the six right-fit target markets for physician practice. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:03:53]: Where so many practices say that once they train people to work as staff members, the next thing they know, the staff have up and quit. Do you have a special secret to retain them? 

 

David Mastovich [0:04:07]: There’s no magic wand. I wish I did, but I will say that culture is everything, and communicating that culture and building it with and for your employees is really critical. So, where we’ve seen success at companies as large as UPMC, with the 10 billion and now like 20 billion in revenue, all the way down to a physician practice of two physicians and a mid-level practitioner. We’ve gone all the way, everything in between, and we’ve talked about how important it is to convey your cultural story. Why do employees come to work for you? Why do they stay? How long do they stay? What do they love about you, and talk about that to patients, even because patients need to hear that, and current and potential patients need to hear that? Current and potential employees need to hear that, talk about them, and give them positive feedback. All of those things matter, and some of those sound like common sense, but you’d be surprised how often we aren’t. When talking about our employees and our culture to current and potential patients, we also aren’t giving that positive feedback as much because we get so busy, and we don’t tie that back to the culture and say, “You’re living the culture in this way.” I think that’s what I mean by the feedback. The feedback needs to say, ” Hey, here’s a core behavior of the company. We have core values, but we also need to define the core behaviors that show that value in action, and then when it happens, we have to say to that employee, ” You know, our core value is customer service. We have multiple ways to say there are behaviors, and one is going above and beyond by doing whatever it takes to get the patient comfortable. You did that yesterday, Suzanne, when you did x. That’s how you make sure you’re talking to your employees about the culture and making the culture about them. It’s built by and for them. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:05:48]: Do you create a handbook that you give to them when they first start under your employment? 

 

David Mastovich [0:05:54]: Yes, yes, I think a lot of it comes down to we have an entire system around the retention and recruitment, and it does involve continually having input from the employees on what they see as the core behaviors that show the core value, and then over time you continually update that core handbook, cultural handbook that you have, and you call it a cultural handbook, as opposed to employee handbook. Use your terminology; play to your strengths. If you say we’re all about culture here, and the culture is this, then here are the three or four core values, examples of those core values in action, and core behaviors for each one in our handbook. In addition to the, oh, you have to do this, and we’re off on Thursday, you know, all that stuff that’s in the legalese is what people tend to remember to give, but when you talk about it from a culture standpoint, that’s when you make the most difference, 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:06:42]: That’s great. And also, I noticed that when a person has been working a while, asking them what they recommend to improve what they’re doing and valuing their opinion, as opposed to just giving you, you know, a statement about what they should be doing. I think that they appreciate that you respect them when you value their opinion and your own. 

 

Chapter 3: Employee Feedback, Surveys & Referrals 

 

David Mastovich [0:07:14]: Oh, there are two parts that as well, Barbara. So, the first is that they absolutely value you asking for their opinion. The second part of that first part is that you’ll actually hear things you can change and improve, but there’s a second way to do it as well. I recommend that you, everybody, do a quick snapshot survey every year when you talk to your employees, some patients, and some referral sources, using an outside source. It doesn’t have to be a big huge budget buster, but what it does is when you’re talking to an employee from the outside and saying, hey, your employer thought enough of you to have us talk to you, that also elevates you, and then they give their little more frank, both positive, they’re a little more direct on the positive, a little more direct on the constructive feedback with an outside party, so then when you can gather that back together, and even if you only have five employees, 10 employees, you’ll get that feedback, and you can hear ideas of how to improve, but they also appreciate that you talk to them. Then that same survey of patients gets you testimonials, and referral sources get you feedback on why they refer and why they don’t. They don’t say it exactly that way, but if you have a good interviewer and you have a good firm, that’s what our team has been trained on. Each of our team members has been trained to conduct those surveys because we do that for all of our clients across the country, and that’s a way to really get that touch-point in for employees as well. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:08:29]: You don’t find that some of the employees are hesitant, to be honest, for fear of it affecting their employment. 

 

David Mastovich [0:08:36]: Well, at a really small organization with two or three employees, it’s, it’s going to be a little more challenging, because they know that there’s less chance of anonymity, so with those, we often do it in sometimes in a group setting, and we try to make it less punitive, like as if they’re being less negative, but you can still get that done once you get beyond talking to two or three people, so if you’re a company that has 2530 employees, you can send an all employee survey out, and then we do the interviews as well, and they know that it’s the feedback is then coming multiple ways, the completely anonymous employee survey, and then the qualitative feedback, they know that we’re telling them, hey, we’re not going to say that Suzanne said that statement, and Barbara said this statement, and Dave said that statement, we’re going to come back and say some trends, we’re going to, because what you’ll, what you’ll find, we’ve seen three to four items get mentioned three or four times, and when you’re doing a qualitative survey, that means those are the ones to bring up, and so we can bring those up and combine it with the quantitative piece of the all employee survey that had maybe 10 questions, key is keep it really short, keep it to eight to 10 questions on the email survey, and three or four open-ended questions when you’re talking to them. Then they get the sense they can tell that this is not something you’re going to run and say so and so said this, because you’re saying, like, what’s one thing you’d change, what’s one thing that makes you want to work here. Those kinds of open-ended questions can make a huge difference. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:09:57]: Absolutely, how would you encourage? Urge them to be referral sources, 

 

David Mastovich [0:10:02]: well, with the with the employees, that there’s multiple things that they can do, they can talk to patients about the positive culture of the organization of the practice, so that’s something we want to get them to feel more comfortable talking about the culture, talk about the core values and the behaviors that exemplify those second thing is we want to get them to where they’re positive enough that they feel look when we go to our Fourth of July get-together here in a little bit, or when it’s around Labor Day, or whatever holiday, we’re going to talk about what we do for a living. It’s almost impossible after we get through the small talk, we end up inevitably saying something, so what do you do, or how’s work? We’d like them to maybe give a positive example, and the more you coach them on that, the more you support them. You get them then talking about you that way, so they’re talking to patients more because we’ve encouraged them to do that. They’re talking about us more in their private lives. We encourage them to do that, and when they get a referral from someone, the follow-up to them and the thank-you for that referral can help that person refer again. If they have someone call with a question, that could be a potential referral source. How they handle that can increase referrals. All of that takes communication from us as leaders, and we can’t just say it once. Saying it once helps a little, but you’ve got to say it repeatedly. You’ve got to recognize when someone does it well and include it in your employee email newsletter. You might put a sign in the break room about it. These are all different ways to get the message out again and again, so employees know they really drive the company’s growth and will be recognized when they exhibit that behavior. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:11:36]: And I would assume that that stands the same way for having them speak to patients about ratings and reviews. 

 

David Mastovich [0:11:46]: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I think that we have to be really patient because we have to look at ourselves. How often do we do reviews? And I’ll give you a personal example. So, whenever you go, and this is my second book, and you, you learned from doing the first one, and there’s a big gap between it, so the world has changed so much since the first two, and I had some experts that I brought on board to help me with, and they said you need to really talk to your employees, your referral sources, or centers of influence, your clients, your friends, your family, and get them to do reviews. Well, I have to tell you, the average person hasn’t really given a review, and they don’t even know how. My parents didn’t know how to shoot. My brother, my brother’s gonna kill me for saying this. He didn’t use Amazon. I’m like, what? So he didn’t. You can’t just go on to Amazon and give a review. They think it’s fake, then. So he had to get a gift card from Amazon and buy the book, even though I’m his brother and he didn’t know how to do any of that. So we actually built a little PDF that we sent to our clients and everybody on our email newsletter. And I tell this story because we expect reviews to come in so easily when we don’t review much ourselves. We don’t give ratings much ourselves, so we have to be patient and realize that that’s just not a normal train of thought for the average person; they can love your practice and never do that, and it’s nothing malicious. So, there’s a way to coach it. An example I would give is, look what I did with my book. We ended up hitting 100 reviews before the first anniversary, and I will tell you, my book publisher said, I told him I have a goal of getting 100 reviews. He said, he said, yeah, right, Davis. I tell you what, I’ll give you a kicker if you get that. Well, he had to pay that kicker, but the reality is that people don’t get that many, and we got to 100 like three days before the book’s anniversary in one year. So that’s the example I would give you: we went out and talked to everybody we knew, and we didn’t just do one phone call, one email, or one conversation, but we didn’t bag either. We had one official email that went out with a little how-to, and we talked to people when we had the chance. Anybody who talked to me the week before the book, the day before the book, a week after the book, a month after, when I was on a Zoom call, I’d bring it up. These are the things that people listening to your podcast can do. Do they have something that explains how to do a review, and they’re thinking, what again? Go to my brother’s example, my parents’ example. One of my best clients said, ‘Dave, I’ve never given a review. Now, the fact that he told me that took vulnerability, because it’s kind of.. we’re all a little embarrassed when we haven’t done something like that. So I said to him, ‘Don’t worry about it, you’re going to be getting this PDF, and Courtney sent it out to everybody, so if you’re thinking you want more reviews, do something like that. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:14:25]: Okay, so with the next book that you’re going to put out, would you consider having a QR code in there that takes them right to a page where they could then give their opinions? 

 

David Mastovich [0:14:39]: Absolutely, absolutely, I think that’s good. QR codes are working way more. It’s funny, they’ve gone through this cycle 20 years ago when they came out, and we would push them for clients. The clients thought we were crazy; they didn’t do much. Then they did nothing for a while. Then, 10 years ago, they seemed to come back, only to be an afterthought again. And then the last three or four years, they’re now really common, and we had a client that they had a. Graduation for their career and technical school, and we had QR codes all around saying to go to this QR code, and you can drop your pictures there, because everybody’s taking pictures of themselves with their kids, and, and so we use that, and we had a tremendous response. So, yes, QR codes are really valuable, and I think that practices could do that as well. 

 

Chapter 4: Storytelling, AI & Referral Source Growth System 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:15:21]: Yes. What do you mean when you say science and math drive the creative art in storytelling? You know, storytelling is just so important these days, but you know, obviously, there has to be some analytics involved. So, could you explain that? 

 

David Mastovich [0:15:38]: I’ll explain it, particularly for your audience, the healthcare audience, and specifically physician practices, so the art is driven by the science and math. When you do some level of systematic gathering of insights, I gave you examples of qualitative and quantitative research you can do without breaking the bank or the budget. Both of those bring you more science. The math is in taking the time to study your referral sources and patterns, because then you have some math behind it. And the Pareto principle is true: 80% of the outputs come from 20% of the inputs. If you go look at your closet and mine, the 20% of that closet is what we wear 80% of the time, if you look at our meals that we eat, 20% of the stuff in our kitchen is what we eat 80% of the time. It is human nature. So, 80% of your referrals will come from 20% of your referral sources. So, if you haven’t done that math and looked at that for real, your gut instincts are going to be right on for many of them, but you’re gonna be some, you know, that one’s in our top 20, and this one isn’t. So you start looking at that, and you now have the math from that, and the science from the systematic gathering of insights of qualitative and quantitative research. And now your story is being built by and for your patients, referral sources, and employees, because you ask them for their insights, you listen, and then you use your math to see who they are, and you build the story by them, for them, and with them. So now your story is that much more powerful, and that can be done in any industry, but in healthcare, it is particularly important, because healthcare is all about meaning. We place meaning with our healthcare, meaning behind hospice, meaning behind home health, meaning behind assisted living and senior living, meaning behind an oral surgeon, meaning behind what our family doc means to us, and that means the story has to be built with, by, and for the target audience through the science and the math. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:17:38]: Okay, so because of the experiences that we have with patients as physicians, obviously, we can give stories from the experiences we have, but to you, do you recommend that stories are built by the patients themselves in the stories they relate to their experiences? 

 

David Mastovich [0:17:55]: I think it’s fantastic when you have a combination, so each physician practice has people that are incredibly happy with them. My family doctor just left UPMC. She knew I was part of UPMC and part of building it, and she would lament some of the things she didn’t like. And I said to her, it’s still a great system, it’s one of the first integrated financial health care delivery systems in the world that has the financing arm, the provider arm, the insurance arm, the doctor arm, and the health hospital arm, but it’s big now. And so she left, and I went with her. I followed her because I’ve been with her for 15 years and have a personal relationship. You talk about meaning, meaning is this person, what she’s done to help my health, that’s what we have. So when she goes to this new place, she would be wise to ask me to do a testimonial. I’m gonna see if she does. If she doesn’t, I’ll offer at some point, but I want to wait, see if she does. So, there are people like me with her at each practice, listening to us right now. So, at the very least, they should be able to get 358 of these testimonials on their own without much trouble. Just go out and ask the person, will say they’re going to do it, and then they won’t necessarily do it. You then come back and say, ‘Hey, I typed this up next time there. And I typed this up, would this be okay? And you put in from… they’ll probably say yes. Then you say to them, ‘Hey, I’d like to get you on Zoom. Can we just call you on Zoom? Can we do a Zoom call? And you just edit it right in Zoom yourself. And now you have a video testimony to put on your website. Look, would I like you to do better quality? That’s sure, I use Riverside FM, which is a tool for your audience that takes away the bubble and Zoom and makes it look much better as far as your crisp quality of video, but my point is I want to get people out there listening to get started. So now you’ve got no matter what, you’ve got a testimony you can put on a brochure, you can put it on your website, you can put it on the monitor in your waiting room, you can have testimonials or scroll on that, and you start to get them to do some on video, but you build your library of testimonies. The first three or four are layups, to use a basketball term, because they’re people like me with my doctor who love the practice, but over time you start asking more and more people when they say something like. Boy, I hate going to the dentist, but you make it so okay. That’s saying someone telling you they’ll do a testimonial, and when they say no, who cares? Someone just doesn’t want to have their name out there, doesn’t want to be, but most people will say sure. So now you’ve got testimonials from real patients telling your story for you, and you should use your waiting room to share that, and you ought to put it on your website. You ought to get the video that’s on your website. You may send that an email newsletter with that video in the email newsletter. You have three little stories in your email newsletter, which comes out every two months, because you’re busy, you don’t even get to it. Okay, do it every two months, preferably every month, but every two months, and you get three stories in an email newsletter, and one of them is a video testimonial every time from a different person. That’s the way you have your patients telling your story for you. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:20:48]: Do you recommend that most medical and dental practices have e-newsletters? 

 

David Mastovich [0:20:55]: Yes, I do. I think there’s a couple of things that people might think are old technology, but they’re still relevant as a hub for you, the first is your website still has to be relevant, still has to be updated, still has to be real, because of the search aspect, but also because we still use it, we still, as humans, use it, even though we’re going to Facebook or whatever, we still use websites. Second thing is, a blog is still important for this reason: I’m not claiming that the dentist’s patients are running to read her blog or his. What I am claiming is that you will now be the thought leader, frame that message, and then use it in other ways. Sending that link out helps with SEO. You have all kinds of ways to use it. I’m not expecting people to run to your blog, but it’s a blog that can be sent via email, can be part of an email newsletter, helps with SEO, and shouldn’t be that difficult for you. You are an expert in your practice. You are an expert in your practice. It doesn’t have to be 1000 words; it can be 300 words. In fact, less is better. So, I think a website and a blog are still relevant today as hubs of activity where people can go to, but it also helps with SEO. So, yes, I think that those are two things that each practice should be doing. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:22:04]: What is your opinion about AI taking over that role? 

 

David Mastovich [0:22:08]: So I think that right now we’re going through what I call the AI sameness of content, and I’m being nice. I have friends who call it AI slot, and here’s what’s happened: we’re not using in the way we can, because we, I think, most people get nervous about writing, the vast majority of humans, and so they get that’s why there’s a term called writer’s block, but most people get nervous about writing, so they think, well, I’ll enter into Chat GPT and it’ll give me what to write, that’s what creates what we call AI sameness of content, if you go to LinkedIn every morning, not every morning, but most mornings, I do this just for fun. I go on my phone, pull up my LinkedIn feed, and I scroll with my thumb. I stop and take a screenshot, and after about 45 seconds, I can have four screenshots of the same opening sentence, each from different people in different industries, and there are a couple of tells that something’s AI. If it says not only is Barbara a great podcast host, she’s great at motocross. You know that phrase, “we don’t talk like that”? That phrase is in there. Another one is the em dash; you see the two-line em dash in between two thoughts that weren’t used much at all. Now with AI, you see it all over the place. Another is that it says not only are you this or that, but it also says that when you set out to do your business, you didn’t want to do blah, but you ended up doing blah. Those are all tales of AI, because the person who doesn’t like to write didn’t realize that the way to leverage ChatGPT, Claude, or any of the others is to get out of writer’s block and say, “I’d like to write a blog for my dental practice.” I’d like to do a blog for my neurosurgery practice. I want to talk about what’s happening in the field. Here’s my take on it. My voice is, I tend to be very direct, and I bring this up, and then you pop that in, and it comes back and gives you about six 800 words of of crap, it’s not really crap, but what it is, is there’s enough slop in it that we know it wasn’t written by a human, but it still got you closer. If you then take that and come back to it, and you say, well, my voice would be this, I talk more like this, and here’s an example of a success, and please don’t use em dashes, and please don’t use a paragraph like this, and copy and paste it. Then the second version gets you even closer, and then you take that second version. You go, now what would I really say in paragraph two? And you just change that. So now this blog that you were nervous about writing takes about 20 minutes and didn’t stress you out, but instead we’re making it take five, and then it’s an AI slop. So that’s one tiny example of a blog post, but the same thing is happening for your LinkedIn post. It’s happening for people trying to write their website copy, people doing email blasts and email newsletters, and people writing video scripts. It’s because we’re not doing the three parts. The first is priming your voice, telling them who you are. Telling them stuff about you, whatever personal stuff, what you like, what your tastes are, what your tendencies are, writers you like, things like that. The second is putting, putting in your thoughts for that particular piece of content. The third is editing it. Most people don’t prime it well, and hardly anyone edits it well, which is why we have AI sameness in storytelling. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:25:19]: Gosh, I do speak like that. I’m really in trouble now. 

 

David Mastovich [0:25:24]: If you speak like that, people will know, and then you’re okay. Yeah, okay. The people who know you will know. I have a certain style, and people will tell me, Dave, I can tell anything that you’ve written. Like, if I write something for… so when I have to write for a client, I actually prime it in that client’s voice. I describe that client, whatever, but I end up still doing the editing myself. But if you, if that’s your style, then that’s what you do, that’s how you write. But that key thing you just said was, I said, that’s how I write, that’s how I talk. Those are the things most people don’t do. Write as you talk. Who says nonetheless? Not many people say so. If you do good, not many people say; nonetheless, you open a sentence up with nonetheless, and you don’t use that. This will have a deleterious impact. Who says “deleterious” is a nice long word and everything? I don’t know many people who say that. So, if you put that in there, someone’s going to go, “Oh, that doesn’t sound like Joanne, that doesn’t sound like Rob, and so write as you talk, and then it’s easier for you. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:26:22]: Well, I think that in itself is good advice. Tell me, could you speak about your referral-source growth marketing system and how it works? 

 

David Mastovich [0:26:33]: Sure, it’s really a growth accelerator, and involves most of what we’ve talked about today. It involves first ensuring we’re not neglecting any of those six right-fit target markets for healthcare companies, healthcare organizations, and physician practices across the board. The second is using science and math to drive any of your storytelling, that is, making sure that you’ve gone out and done the qualitative research, and then this part, analyzing that referral data, because until you do that, analyzing that referral data, you really don’t have the full system. I know people who will go and hire liaisons, I know people who are staffing companies of liaisons, and that’s important. I’m glad there are people who do that, but if you haven’t done the other part, if you haven’t done the systematic gathering of insights, studied the data yourself, if you haven’t built the story with the target audiences, because that liaison has to have a story, they have to have the story that really will resonate emotionally and factually. So, the system is to go through all of those. It’s a five-step part, which the first part is systematically gathering insights, the second is mapping out, based on the math, science, and math, what the target markets are. Then the third is activating the story and the repetitive system of having someone tell that story, whether it’s a liaison or another employee. And then the fourth is continually doing that and tracking it and testing, tracking, and tweaking what’s working and what’s not, because anything we do in life doesn’t work 90% of the time. And so the same thing of your referral source marketing, so you have to tweak and track and test that, and that’s what the whole system is, as each of those steps in it, and most people do a couple things, some do nothing, they actually do nothing, and they think the quality of their care is going to matter, and sadly that’s not the case for any of us in any field, the quality of my marketing. Hey, if this were all judged solely on the quality of the storytelling, the science, and the system, we’d be a heck of a lot bigger at Mass Solutions. So, you still have to go and tell that story, but you have to do it systematically. Others do the liaison thing, they have a liaison going out talking to referral sources, that’s good, but not if you haven’t done all this other stuff, and not if you haven’t used things like predictive index to see what drives the communication of your liaison team, not if you haven’t given them the stories and tested them on the stories, not if you haven’t gathered the testimonials, not if you don’t track the referral sources on an ongoing basis to see the outcomes that the liaisons are getting you, so it’s more than just getting liaisons, it’s more than just doing a story, it’s a whole system. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:29:05]: What social media platforms are for no-bullshit marketing? 

 

David Mastovich [0:29:11]: Well, the main one for me is LinkedIn, and my team makes fun of me because I’ve been a big LinkedIn user for 15 years, and they’ve made sure that we still have a presence on other social media outlets, like Instagram, Facebook, to a degree, Twitter, not as much. And the reason I haven’t put into all four of those the full level of activity is because you’re not going to be an expert at 10 things in your career, and you’re not going to be great at five social media platforms, so you need to pick one or two that you’re going to really focus on, then another two that you’re going to focus on to some degree. So, because a lot of my business comes from entrepreneurs, CEOs, owners, and the like, LinkedIn is important. However, there are many, many doctor practices that we’re not going to get from LinkedIn, so we’ve got to make sure we have other ways. To market to them and to reach them and communicate to them, so I would say that it depends on what your target markets are like within those six, what their makeup is, and what you want to convey. So, for me, I personally use LinkedIn a lot, for me and for Mass Solutions, but we also have posts on Instagram and Facebook to a degree. You also have to be realistic about it. While we are passionate about what we do, and we’re excited, and we have a cool little no bullshit marketing thing, and we have our no bullshit button, that bullshit. So we have that for what we give to clients, so we’re still not going to be something you’re thumbing through regularly to see what you know what you and I are doing, Barbara. That’s not going to happen as much as when you’re watching, you’re looking at stuff on social media about other things, about different products, movie stars, celebrities, things of that nature. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:30:47]: Do you sell that button? 

 

David Mastovich [0:30:48]: No, I haven’t. We’ve thought about doing that. We probably should. What I do for the button is that new clients get buttons for the people on the team that brought us in and are working with us on a regular basis. Funny story behind that is with the podcast, one of the team members came up to me one day and just said, “Hey, give me for the test today, you know, you’re testing the audio, just give me a.. that’s bullshit. I go, “That’s bullshit. About a week or so later, this was on my desk, so they did it without telling me. I said, “That’s that’s cool, and it is a.. it is a proud.. as a crowd favorite, people like that a lot. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:31:22]: When I was speaking to you prior to the show today, you mentioned that there is another book by you that is in progress. What is that going to be about? 

 

David Mastovich [0:31:31]: Well, my first book was Get Where You Want to Go through Marketing, Selling, and Storytelling, and that was in 2011 when storytelling was still not considered a good thing. Storytelling was like, oh, you’re kind of bs, and so forth. So we’re ahead of the curve there. The most recent one is no bullshit marketing, and as a, there’s a large focus on healthcare. The one I’m in progress right now is looking at the family business aspect, because we’re at a time when the very high percentage – it’s about, I think, it’s between 60 and 67% I don’t know the exact stat of businesses are turning generationally right now within the next three to five years, and so I want to be able to help with recruiting, retention, and revenue results for those kind of family owned businesses, and that family owned business could be a physician practice, it could be a dental practice, it could be anything that’s family owned. It could be a physical therapy company, so it is in healthcare. I don’t want people to think that that’s not just outside of healthcare, but the reason it’s so passionate to me is my dad had a family business, he’s my hero, and my mom and dad are my heroes. I got to see them yesterday, and so I’ve always had a soft spot for family owned business, and I have one myself, but these businesses that are generationally going on and are big enough that they’re handing it down in these next three to five years, they really need to be able to convey that cultural storytelling and the market storytelling, and if they aren’t going to do that with the science, math, and driving the creative art, they’re going to have problems, so I’m looking at any type of multi-generational business out there, many in healthcare and some not, and that’s what the book’s going to be about. 

 

Chapter 5: Family Business, Offer & Episode Close 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:33:08]: There are a lot of family-owned businesses, or businesses that are passed on, that have a tremendous amount of friction between siblings that are in there, you know. Is there something that you do to get rid of that tension? 

 

David Mastovich [0:33:24]: Well, it’s about clarity, and that’s what we want to bring to the situation, is clarity about what you want to keep of the existing culture. So, let’s say there’s a 70 year old dad that owns this, that’s still in the top spot, and his 45 year old daughter has been there for a while, and she’s been in the number two spot, and everybody kind of knows she’s going to be the number one, and there’s some friction there because he doesn’t want to walk away completely yet, and she doesn’t want the shadow there. So we have to get clarity on what they both want, convey that to each other, and then have the new generation decide what we are keeping from the culture. You don’t throw the entire culture out, you don’t even throw 70% of it, I don’t throw 50% about you, probably just tweak the culture 20 to 30% So, let’s, let’s, what’s the two thirds that’s going to stay and make sure that story remains intact, and what’s that new third going to be for that new leader, so they have some pride in ownership of the culture, and then you have to infuse that culture through current and potential employees again and again and again, and then convey that to the market. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:34:30]: Very often, with these family businesses, there is friction when it comes to disbursement of funds, and like, how much each person you know can get, like, where the money is being spent, you know, which is not always something that they agree upon. How do you get them to not only see that there is a problem, but also how to resolve it? 

 

David Mastovich [0:34:56]: Well, we see it as a mass solution as one key part of. Our team, and we’re the part that’s finding out what the market is thinking, and the market is those six target markets. We’re finding out what those six target markets are thinking and feeling, coming back to convey that, and building plans around it. But we’re only one part of the team. We know that there’s going to be a wealth manager, financial planner part of that team, and we know there’s going to be a CPA firm part of that team, we know there’s going to be a top legal person part of that team, and what we do that’s a little different is we love talking about that, because we’ve had clients in all three of those spaces, so we have had multiple CPA firms, multiple wealth management firms, and multiple law firms, and so we kind of know that space and we look at it as a positive to make it a team, whereas I think a lot of times when someone’s doing mainly the storytelling and not all the other business solutions that we’re doing in the strategy, they don’t even realize who the law firm is, or who the CPA firm is, or the wealth management team is, and so then it’s they’re just an afterthought, so then your, your digital agency is an afterthought. Oh yeah, when we get the story done, we tell them, whereas what we’re trying to do is say, no, no, this is a key team that you got these four external forces along with your internal leadership team. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:36:13]: Well, what I’d like to throw out to the audience listening is that if this happens to pertain to you, if you are part of a family or a legacy where it’s being passed down, and I’m sure you’ve got stories. Then what I’d like, before the book is finished, is to know, write your story out, and submit it to Dave, and maybe it’ll wind up in his book. 

 

David Mastovich [0:36:38]: Yes, for sure, that’d be great. That’d be amazing, 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:36:40]: So you know, let me say this again. If you missed that, write your story, good or bad, don’t have to put your name on it if you don’t want to, and send it to Dave, and you know your company, and, and if you put your name, you know, and and it winds up in the book, you know that’s going to be great exposure for you. So write out your story, submit it to Dave, and you know it may be in his next book, 

 

David Mastovich [0:37:05]: and to be, to be completely transparent to them, so they know if you email me this stuff, I’ll reach back out and we’ll talk, and you can say, I want it to be anonymous, or no, I don’t mind, like, I want, you know, that’s the way we tackle that, so it’d be good to just hear that and learn that, and it’s Dave at Mass Solutions dot biz dot biz, and even, even if a listener wants one of my other two books, just tell me which one you would like, and because they listen to your show, I’ll give them a signed copy. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:37:31]: Okay, so also before the show started, Dave told me that he was going to offer, you know, something great for all of you listeners, but not only listeners, you have to actually engage and submit a request. So, could you repeat what you offered them again? 

 

David Mastovich [0:37:51]: Sure. If any of your listeners would like either of my two books, No Bush Marketing, or Get Where You Want to Go Through Marketing, Selling and Storytelling, email me at David Mass Solutions dot biz. Mention which book, and mention that you listen to the show, and I will sign it and send it to you. 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:38:05]: Well, thank you so much. This has been a great episode, and I’m sure everybody learned a tremendous amount. You know, thank you for being on the show with us. 

 

David Mastovich [0:38:15]: Hey, thanks for having me, and I really enjoyed 

 

Dr. Barbara Hales [0:38:17]: it. Okay, well, that’s the end of the show. Thank you for watching Marketing Tips for doctors with your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Until next time, 

 

Narrator [0:38:29]: Thanks for listening to Marketing Tips for Doctors. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review. Press the subscribe button so you never miss an episode, and tell your friends about the show. Join us on Marketing Tips for doctors.com for replays and more resources to help grow your practice, strengthen your brand, and dominate your field. Remember, your one tweet from greatness, you.